May 2014 - clik 1 - clik 2 - clik 3
"Última coisa que EUA quer para o mundo é democracia. Quer mesmo é controlar os países".
SS: Right now I want to talk to you a little bit about America’s interests versus America’s principles. Do you think Washington’s stated foreign policy goals and its interests always coincide? Because sometimes it does seem like the US is hostage of its principles.
CH: You know, that kind of rhetoric is for domestic and international consumption. I’ve spent my life on the outer reaches of empire, whether that was the Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, the Balkans, and I know the dirty work of empire. All the things about liberating Iraq and bringing democracy to people in the Middle East – that is to give a kind of moral veneer to war crimes. I mean, preemptive war under post-Nuremberg laws is a war crime. So I don’t think any of us – and I’ve spent 20 years overseas – take any of that rhetoric seriously at all. The last thing the US wants in countries like Afghanistan or anywhere else is democracy. They want control, and we have a long history, whether it’s Mosaddegh in Iran or Arbenz in Guatemala, of overthrowing democratic systems when they do things we don’t like.
SS: We’re seeing kind of same thing in Ukraine, there’s a lot of very tough talk over the country and there’s been a gunboat diplomacy as well, with NATO ships in the Baltic and the Black Sea, troop surge in the eastern area etc., but we’ve already seen how cautious Americans get when there’s talk of war, and I mean, the American public, polls, show no support for a strike on Syria. And President Obama didn’t even go to the Congress for approval. That means nobody really wants to fight, right?CH: That’s my impression. And I don’t think the Administration wants to fight either. I mean they’ve sent 600 troops to Poland or something – is this really… Yeah, I’m worried about it, and I’m worried about it because, to go back to the beginning of the interview, I think the American public is utterly misinformed about what has been happening in Ukraine, and the provocation that is being carried out by the US and NATO on Russia’s border, which we should not be doing. And Russia reacts as we would react in the similar situation. I think it’s just a very short-sighted and foolish foreign policy, the whole idea of trying to incorporate the Baltic States – and there were even overtures made to Ukraine – into NATO is insane. And that makes it dangerous. I don’t think there’s any stomach here, certainly not on streets, but I think even at official levels for any kind of a real war. I certainly pray that’s the case.
